Current and Future leagues

[jim the chin]

I don't see any problem with playing one sector 4v4 and the next one 3v3. If squads don't have enough for 4v4, they can start with the 3v3 while they wait for the 4th to show up. Captains can be asked if they want to play 4v4 in south, east or west, and they can be asked if they want 3v3 in north. So this gives more flexibility and choice.

I think we can use the bots in the prac arenas right? Kills should be worth a lot if we ever want newbs to like the game. What say you BH?

[jim the chin]

Here's how it would work:

Code: Select all

Sector / Squad Show  / How to play
------------------------------------
West   /   2v2       /   2v2
       /   3v2       /   2v2
       /   3v3       /   3v3
       /   4v3       /   3v3
       /   4v4       /   3v3, but 4v4 if both captains agree.
------------------------------------
East   /   2v2       /   2v2
 OR    /   3v2       /   3v2
South  /   3v3       /   3v3
       /   4v3       /   3v3
       /   4v4       /   3v3, but 4v4 if both captains agree.
------------------------------------
North  /   2v2       /   Both forfeit the point
       /   3v2       /   Forfeit win for team with 3.
       /   3v3       /   3v3
       /   4v3       /   4v3
       /   4v4       /   4v4
------------------------------------- 

[Beer Hunter]

Alrirght so basically DSBL with 2 sectors played in one game day, rest played next weekend which then equals as one full game? Well this format sounds interesting, however I am a bit concerned about 10-12 man roster size, are squad able to do that? There are plenty of players who wish to play with this or that pilot, if left out, does this mean we will lose potential players? Perhaps, just asking this question because it's so obvious.

I don't see a problem doing this, basically we have all the elements we need, the prac bots can be operated "manually" too if I'm not mistaken so we can "host" these games. However, are you, all of you, certain that a normal 6vs6 league does not work anymore? 6 pilots too much to get to show at once?

Could we perhaps leave the door open for normal 6vs6 game by saying you can play that if both squads have 6 pilots? This way we do not lose anything at least, however can still play half star, half functional "DSBL".

Scoring, why can't it be as it is? What is wrong with the current system? (meaning the kill/flag, in game scoring)

Secondly, the scoring for the victories/losses of the sector games, I'd like to simplify(huh..) a bit and say that once you've played those 4 sectors = overall points win the game, as in normal DSBL. This way yet again something "old" to look back to, at least.

Btw, if we're doing this, I suggest max players per sector is based on the old 4-3-3-2 format and you can play with higher only if both caps agree. (even in West, 2vs2) I think it's best that way, these sectors were designed to be played like that.

These are my only thoughts atm, the other things mentioned by Pater seemed fine to me and are lesser details which can be figured out (fine tuned) along the way.

On another note, this plan seems interesting towards the future of our zone. If we have this kind of "play one sector at time" league which is hosted, this means we can (after some serious coding) start doing qualifications or something funny for the league automated. We already have those prac bots and stuff, it's just matter of fiding coder and "fixing" everything. I see a lot potential here, that's why this fast glimpse to the future..

PS. How about we postpone the beginning of 4vs4 then and start preparing some sort of DSBL and then, once DSBL starts we play 4vs4 and mini side-league. Of course with all the ingrediments included, like play-offs. (Note, this is just a thought, not final verdict)

[Eridu]

OUCH.... from 12 to 6 to 4.......

Could we perhaps leave the door open for normal 6vs6 game by saying you can play that if both squads have 6 pilots? This way we do not lose anything at least, however can still play half star, half functional "DSBL".

YES, if coded with same scoring system.

Play every sector 4vs4, 2 sectors per day. Only reason to play less players is if there is a small show. Question is do we allow teams to play 1 man up or even it up to 3v3 or 2v2 for those situations. Should it be left up to the captain of team with better show?

Scoring is a whole other issue. Please remember any changes will require coding and thus a coder with time. Volunteers?

If 6v6 was 150kill/60flag am I to assume (since I can't find someone in game who knows) 12vs12 was 150kill/120flag. If so in original league kills were only worth 1.25 flags and doubled to 2.5 in 6v6. Same system with no coding would be 150kill/40flag,3.75. Horrible!

With all 4 players in game and 10 points a flag per player I suggest:
60kill/40flag for a 1.5 ratio or 70kill/40flag for a 1.75 ratio or 75kill/40flag for a 1.875 ratio or 80kill/40flag for at 2.0 ratio

If we allow West to end up being played 2v2 the flags are worth way less and gives even more emphasis to kills, too much.
More reason to play every sector 4vs4. We need to keep in mind situations where teams will show with less players and the effect it will have on the worth of flags or just make every flag worth a flat 40 points not 10 points per player.

What ratio is best?

[kemi]

The one used in the 6 vs 6 league - by far

[Tembest]

For once I agree with Eridu on pretty much everything...

If I remember correctly, the kill points were based on flags held at the moment in the last 12 vs 12.
For 6vs6 we changed the kill to a fixed 150 while flag was still a 10. This was, as kemi said, by far the best ratio we have ever had.

And as Eridu hinted, we can't just swap the game to 6vs6 or 2vs2 whatever without changing the scoring meanwhile. The purpose of the game would totally change.
Imagine the value of kills suddenly halving. If it is possible, we would want a bot which counts the kill value as "number of players per team * 20-30" to maintain 2-3 ratio,
whichever we want it to be, no matter which sector we play. But... as suggested by Eridu, I would rather just play all sectors 4vs4 or any other fixed number due to
reasons explained multiple times previously.

[Nubby]

Agree with the point that going from 12 to 6 to 3 not really an idea you want to be encouraging. The only point of lowering the amount of players is to encourage more squads but if we still have the same 6 squads then you're basically losing even more players.

If we can't do 6v6 than would prefer a fixed number league say 4 or 3 for each sector. Or heck just pick 1 sector and call it DSB East League and then the next season play DSB West League so it keeps it fresh and interesting.

Anyways, Im gonna be like Mati and just go eh I an willing to roll with whatever time permitting. NF can easilly get 6 and Im pretty sure EG can too so maybe the other active capts liek kemi/bh/eridu/etc can fill us in if their squads can show 6 because if you guys can all this discussion is moot rofl.

[Tembest]

Anyways, Im gonna be like Mati and just go eh I an willing to roll with whatever time permitting. NF can easilly get 6 and Im pretty sure EG can too so maybe the other active capts liek kemi/bh/eridu/etc can fill us in if their squads can show 6 because if you guys can all this discussion is moot rofl.

Do you honestly believe we could get 6 squads that are capable of showing up with at least 6 players every weekend?
Out of 50 players, which is the total number of players in BABL, which was the most succesful league in a long time, you suggest
we would actually have a 72% show up rate. That is assuming no squads show with 7 or 8 but exactly 6. Sorry to say this, but..
get real. In reality you are asking for roughly an 80-85% show up rate. This is something way beyond my understanding.

I say we would be lucky to have 4 properly functioning squads for 6 vs 6 league.

[Nubby]

Like I said, I know NF can show 6+, we do this regularly in HZ and EG now. DSB won't be too too much a problem though the sell will be the hardest.

Also, I am pretty sure EG can show 6+ because they have been for the past BABL and DSBL.

Thats why I am asking if the other squadcapts like kemi/BH/Eridu/whoever intends to lead the last squad detector/gurl most prob if they can get their squads to show 6/ stop being elitists and maybe recruit newbies. Honestly would even rather 5v5 Half-DSBL.

PS: BABL was successful because it was fun, DSBL always ends up in super one sided games vet friendly games, I would suggest tweaking it a little to make it more newbie friendly to encourage players to stick around but I wouldn't even have a clue where to begin. Whilst this doesn't really help my case that 6v6 can still be ran, do note that BABL had a cap of 15 per roster and NF/EG could have both exceed that number easily. Again, is down to the other squad capts to give feedback, I can only talk for my squad.

This is imo from NF feedback but with DSBL when we would lose the game in the first 5 minutes, no one would want to come back and play the next weekend unless we really had no one else show but BABL people were actually interested in coming back to play the following weekend cause we at least had close games and chances to win.

Eitherways,
Anyways, Im gonna be like Mati and just go eh I an willing to roll with whatever time permitting.

[Beer Hunter]

Well just a few quick words, Im at a bar so writing an essay with phone is not ideal. Anyway, one cruel fact with leagues is that we need squad caps, badly. People who can manage large group full of big and small egos, the cap obviously needs to be one tough meep meep. I dont want to end up leading a squad, I rather would love to enjoy playing without the capping issues, however this seems impossible. I see the lack of captains as a big issue on dsb leevel, I mean think, atm these so called pro squads need just some of them to start the squad and the rest will follow automaticly. This is not how capping on lower level squads work, they do shitloads of work to drag their players to games, pracs, etc. I would love to see new talents rising to be caps, those hungry young caps we had in the past..

Well, not very short but I will go get another beer now, better and maybe longer reply tomorrow.