Standings+scoring for BABL & Dodgeball

[Eridu]

First, please don't exaggerate with some 30 minutes crap,you should probably reverse those numbers you used. We do take into account what is said by everyone on forums but at the same time many daily players could care less about the forums and we take into account what they say to. At the end of the day not everyone will be pleased.

Edit: Besides, how could I pitch in during anything when I have no idea when the planning takes place?
On another note, I can't really even play anymore because the times I can log on there is literally no
one online/present/willing to play. I can't even play 1 vs 1 pub.

Pretty much, you're not showing up often enough or not really sticking around when you do. I don't see you around much and I'm logged in all the time.

[Tembest]

I know how things work here. I've been part of it for a long time. All I can say is that the planning process of leagues and most
other stuff has always been horrible. Even when I've been part of those. Once again, I'm not blaming anyone. I just wish things
could be done differently around here.

Building a league together with the community does not mean an idea is presented and then you wait for comments, then adjust
the league based on the comments once and boom, we have a ready league. No, you need multiple drafts of the league until it
seems perfect. This goes for everything else as well. The planning process has always been horrible in DSB, and it's only because
there is really no one to coordinate the planning process itself, only bunch of people giving out their ideas.

And about staying online... That's the problem. I have no reason to stay online. I log in around three times a week, I see if anyone
is playing. If yes, I usually hop in and play with them. If no, I say "hi" or "anyone here?" in team chat, and if I get no response, I
log off. I'm not interested in staying and staring at an empty DSB arena where no one is playing or chatting.

[Beer Hunter]

Well, as for BABL the format has been pretty much the same each year so such a big discussion for this should not be needed or then we're close to forming a new league, aren't we? Obviously the tiny details, such as the one's you've mentioned about should have been figured out in more detail together with the players.

However, this is where the biggest issue comes in. Forum is closed community within a larger community, in other words, how many players do we have browsing these forums and participating the discussion actively? The number for league forums is roughly 10, for main forums we have a few funny spammers boosting the number to roughly 15. The rest are quiet or just made an account but forget to visit this place actively. And did I mention that most of the players don't even want to publish their thoughts towards ideas? Why? It's quite simple and the reason you can see by viewing your own posts, Tembest.

The ideas or thoughts what others have are actively attacked and responded to with such a nappy smart ass comments which will just make the person who had the idea go away, hide for good, unless they have built up very good self esteem to dive through the crap and realize this is just the normal way things are done around here.

As for the community within the community idea, like I mentioned, many do not even browse these forums so it is impossible to have discussion in full detail over here. Many players like to share their comments privately or in a small group while playing or testing something in DSB. Number of these players, who are willing to share comments or even discuss like that is higher than the amount of people talking in forums. Obviously this means that we need to take many many things into account when trying to build up a league, we can have a discussion over here but the majority still is either quiet as long as everything works or shares their comments privately. This is one of the reasons why some decisions or such as may seem one sided when the loud forum crew, lead by a few delightful people, attacks the idea even though it has been supported by others, who do not want their names to be mentioned for public attacks.

Obviously, these comments are not meant to hurt anybody but this is the wild wild west of the forum community of DSB, from my point of view.

Think about these things, each and everyone of you. Wake the hell up if you are in some sort of a dream.

PS. Obviously there is a lesson to learn here for us as well, we will try to be more active in forums when building leagues.

[Tembest]

I agree forums are more or less dead these days. I don't care which the channel is, but don't fool me... I know how it goes.
Lots of people share their ideas with Staff, then Staff creates its own version where most of the ideas are combined.
No one ever knows what going on there inbetween and during the planning process. So, in other words, people are asked
for opinions on certain matters without knowing the big picture. This causes the possibility that once the final product has
been created from many good single ideas, we find out the elements do not work well together.

As for people who cannot take criticism for their ideas should not even have the right to speak. There is no one, absolutely
no one who can constantly give ideas that do not need to be altered. It's impossible because the goal is to please as many
players as possible and one person cannot keep constantly doing it. Therefore, people who cannot take criticism should
understand that they aren't criticised, only their ideas are and the goal is to improve their ideas or make the person come up
with a new idea because his original was good but not good enough.

An idea would be to create some sort of a discussion channel, forums? email? I don't care, as long as many people as possible
have access to it. Gather 20 people who have given any even half decent ideas throughout the years and make them part of
this group. They shouldn't be told to keep anything about the development secret so they can discuss the matter with anyone
they please and bring other people's ideas into this group. People will also feel more involved, and what Staffers would like is
that they won't be blamed for everything that goes wrong.

Edit: And once again, I have been part of everything that has gone wrong in DSB. So, I'm not blaming anyone any more than I'm
blaming myself. But because DSB is close to its death I'm wanting to do everything in a completely opposite way as the ways
that have brought us to death. I don't know if this the best thing to do; it's simply how I feel.

[kemi]

Lol, how can people make comments in planning when the planning seems to be secret?....

[Nubby]

For tiebreakers -

#1 Head to Head
#2 Most Wins
#3 Just have another match between the teams which are tied.

Problem solved not rocket science.

Also number 2, I think it would be nice if the #1 seed got to choose their opponent, would make actually winning the regular season mean something but that is just me.

Btw why are all these not at least talked before the season starts so we know what the heck is going on. I would also have suggested 2 rounds of BABL since its actually fun/would keep zone active for longer but its too late to change that now.

If the problem currently is BH or Eridu going lets do xyz with no input, maybe have the points of discussions for the Captains to vote or at least talk about? As far as I know all 6 of us are on the forums and it'll take maybe a couple of days for the feedback to go through? It works in other zones and it sorta did work in DSBL before with Ent asking the captains how stuff should be done, don't see why we can't just use the forums as a viable means of communication now and for whatever further leagues you guys have planned.

Maybe set up a private Captains/Trustees sub-forum like HZ and EG does so league stuff gets decided ASA&P if you don't want the random players trolling. In response to having huge player discussions, leave the league discussions to capts/trustees only cause they are the ones running the squads. and are the people that have taken the most time/effort to set up a team, we aren't going to waste our time/effort with dumb stuff. For other developments like sets or maps or w/e, having a group of people in the know how is good - hey set up a Board of Directors or w/e and make the stuff in there open to public. See www.rshl.org which is HZ's forums. - Theres an archived BoD forum which shows all of the discussions that have taken place and how each decision came about, I think that is what everyone here is asking for - a little transparency.

** The planning that should be done by the staff are the decisions on what league should be hosted and a general idea of how it is going to be run, the specifics should be down to the captains** (For example the staff should go ok we're going to do a Dodgeball or Kebab League next, the captains involved should be the ones deciding how many teams make playoffs/ how many rounds there should be, what the time limits are etc) People will also feel more involved, blah blah blah ...

Not saying I don't appreciate whatever has been done, just saying open it up for discussions with the captains cause they are ultimately the ones playing and receiving feedback from their squads. At the end of the day, we all just want to have fun and try and make it as enjoyable as possible

[Beer Hunter]

Inspired by this, lets move to discuss the matters to seperate threads:

For BABL & future league planning: http://www.deathstarbattle.com/forums/v ... ?f=3&t=403

For communication channels & general expectations: http://www.deathstarbattle.com/forums/v ... ?f=3&t=402

PS. Remember to be constructive!

[Tembest]

I updated the standings for both BABL and DB.

In DB: Nub Factor, Everglaze and Vuohet share the second place.

[kemi]

Nice in DB.

We should have play offs there for sure to determine it. They should draw straws on who to meet Crus in semi's though I guess

[Tembest]

Nice in DB.

We should have play offs there for sure to determine it. They should draw straws on who to meet Crus in semi's though I guess

Or then they can play each other next weekend and the winner will get to play Crus in a final on babl final weekend.
Or then we leave it here... because Beer already announced there wouldn't be play-offs.