Team Combat League starting!

Moderators: Beer Hunter, Tembest, Entr0py

Tembest
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:12 am

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Tembest »

Yes, Beastie + Makron + kemi would be guaranteed winners if they played at
the same time. But Makron + Johnny + Jesster would not stand a chance if
they all played together. However, Makron alone could stand a chance if he
had his 30 deaths.

There could be horrible abuse as well. Let's say Big-F kemi and Sulla play for
a team. kemi is the far best killer, so he could be the one not caring so much
about deaths. He could use his 10 deaths, and tell Sulla to spec, and then
it's kemi + Big-F playing even kemi died 10 times already. You are encouraging
teams to keep fielding their best players... It's really unfair and kills the idea
of a team league...

You're currently the only one supporting 30 deaths here.

You're worried about the newb teams. Well it's the same situation for everyone!
Show up or suffer! The team will still get 30 points if that one person chooses
to play, which is far more than enough. And actually, the very worst teams will
lose less points when they only play one guy (10 deahts) than if they played all
three. So, even in that sense the argument fails. You're not helping anyone there.
The worst players cannot even go 1:3 ratio...

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Entr0py
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Entr0py »

Tembest wrote:Yes, Beastie + Makron + kemi would be guaranteed winners if they played at
the same time. But Makron + Johnny + Jesster would not stand a chance if
they all played together. However, Makron alone could stand a chance if he
had his 30 deaths.

There could be horrible abuse as well. Let's say Big-F kemi and Sulla play for
a team. kemi is the far best killer, so he could be the one not caring so much
about deaths. He could use his 10 deaths, and tell Sulla to spec, and then
it's kemi + Big-F playing even kemi died 10 times already. You are encouraging
teams to keep fielding their best players... It's really unfair and kills the idea
of a team league...

You're currently the only one supporting 30 deaths here.

You're worried about the newb teams. Well it's the same situation for everyone!
Show up or suffer! The team will still get 30 points if that one person chooses
to play, which is far more than enough. And actually, the very worst teams will
lose less points when they only play one guy (10 deahts) than if they played all
three. So, even in that sense the argument fails. You're not helping anyone there.
The worst players cannot even go 1:3 ratio...
The abuse you mentioned is a possibility regardless, since squads almost always opt to play their best if
they have a choice. For example, if mak+johnny+jesster start, and then kemi shows up, he'd make johnny
or jesster spec regardless of whether or not mak went out first (which is highly unlikely btw). The only
difference between your hypothetical and this, is that in this situation, both mak and kemi would have to
show up to do the abuse, instead of just mak.

Also, a team of 3 bad players is way more likely to get better than 1:3 ratio than just one bad player. So
even if the one bad player only gets 10 deaths, he'll get 1/3 the kills as he would if he had 30 deaths.

Finally, how is it fair that all teams get 30 deaths, but if you show up with 1 guy, you only get 10? You're
already at a severe disadvantage playing 1v3v3v3..., so why pile it on?

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Entr0py
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Entr0py »

Another question is with regards to exhibition games like the prac matches we've had already. Since anyone
can play and it doesn't check squads, there's the possibility that someone could play 10 deaths on one team
and then sub in on a different team. Should this not be allowed as well?

kemi
Posts: 1682
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by kemi »

I think your analogy is flawed Ent with the example in your previous post.

It is a new player that shows so he should obviously be allowed to sub in for anyone that's in the game as long as it is same team, same sqaud etc and the person hasn't played in that game yet.

And no, noone should ever be allowed more than 10 lives. No matter what happens. I thought everybody but you have made that quite clear :) But then again it is a useless prac so I guess you can do whatever you want...

But for league the rules should be clear.

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Entr0py
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Entr0py »

kemi wrote:It is a new player that shows so he should obviously be allowed to sub in for anyone that's in the game as long as it is same team, same sqaud etc and the person hasn't played in that game yet.
The "obvious" here isn't so obvious...so what if he's a new player? There's no practical difference between
makron subbing a teammate after he's died 10 times, and beastie subbing an inferior player when he shows
up. It's just an arbitrary decision to say that if you've died 10 times, then you can't play anymore no matter
what.

But OK, it seems like people want it this way, so I'll go ahead and program it in.

Tembest
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:12 am

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Tembest »

It's just like any other game Ent.. You are killed in dodgeball,
no matter how good you are, you are not allowed back in.
In CS, (I'm not sure about it, haven't played it in more than
10 years) if you die, you can't just hop in for another player.

Your logic is weird, at least in my opinion... I understand you
would want to give teams a chance to fight if someone lags
out etc. But it could be abused way too easily.

Even if it wasn't abused, it would still seem unfair to me.
I could go 30-30 alone, easily. Then I would end up with
90-30+30 points. 90 points by playing ALONE, which is more
than the average points gained by all teams. More than average,
ALONE... That's ridiculous.

jim the chin
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:17 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by jim the chin »

it would also be bloody annoying having one man teams in the game with 30 deaths to waste. Playing alone naturally makes you more defensive and more likely to run away. It's annoying enough at the end of games having single players pestering the outskirts of a bigger fight. I wouldn't want that the whole time. Give them 10 deaths and they can bugger off after that.
Please delete this account. I want nothing to do with this place any more.

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Entr0py
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Entr0py »

jim the chin wrote:it would also be bloody annoying having one man teams in the game with 30 deaths to waste. Playing alone naturally makes you more defensive and more likely to run away. It's annoying enough at the end of games having single players pestering the outskirts of a bigger fight. I wouldn't want that the whole time. Give them 10 deaths and they can bugger off after that.
That's a fair point.
Tembest wrote:It's just like any other game Ent.. You are killed in dodgeball,
no matter how good you are, you are not allowed back in.
In CS, (I'm not sure about it, haven't played it in more than
10 years) if you die, you can't just hop in for another player.

Your logic is weird, at least in my opinion... I understand you
would want to give teams a chance to fight if someone lags
out etc. But it could be abused way too easily.

Even if it wasn't abused, it would still seem unfair to me.
I could go 30-30 alone, easily. Then I would end up with
90-30+30 points. 90 points by playing ALONE, which is more
than the average points gained by all teams. More than average,
ALONE... That's ridiculous.
It still sounds to me like the only argument against it is that really good players could theoretically solo and beat teams of 3, which just sounds absurd to me, but w/e. ;)

The bot should be ready now, in the last stages of testing.

kemi
Posts: 1682
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by kemi »

Then you should read what we post then :(

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Entr0py
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: Team Combat League starting!

Post by Entr0py »

:(

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