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falconeer
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:24 pm

Website and Forums

Post by falconeer »

http://www.deathstarbattle.com/leagues.php

So i'm trying to find out who won the Bable leagues because I'm updating our F1 help list, and including past league wins in it.

That's when I discover the Retard Ent couldn't even sit down 10 minutes on a Sunday and update the league standings. If you click each league, it takes you to it's page, where a standings list is supposed to be so I can tell who won the league...

If i ask beer, he will be like wah dont bother me its not important. To beer everything is not important. Everything I ask to do, beer tells me its not important, its not our priority, meanwhile whatever is his priority he doesnt even get that done. I feel sorry for people playing this zone.

Beer Hunter
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:29 pm
Location: Finland

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by Beer Hunter »

I know this is going to be as stupid as it may, answering to a troll on his 100th post attempting to draw me into the open. Alright, lets focus on one thing here: people coordinate the changes which are supposed to happen in DSB. We have coordinated efforts, we have a list of things to be done. The list is long and it is based on priorities - what needs to be done FIRST and usually these priorities require a lot of man power too. Then there are the secondary tasks which usually have the lesser important things, which still work but need updating.

Last thing we need here is a person who can not focus on the tasks he is given, rather he flies straight away to the forums to make a call that we're not interested to do anything. You've been given a task by Fly and he, even I, trusted that you'd go on with the tasks given. However - what do you do? You focus on our secondary tasks and make them seem like the most important thing for DSB and the task you were given for the number 1 priority is ignored by you.

Anybody with any idea of coordinating, planning or project management knows that a person who can not focus on the tasks given is a loose cannon and a major liability to the project. An asset he is only if he can focus his power towards what the people running the project have given him, otherwise he will just keep ruining the efforts and causing a stir over having his own thoughts ignored.

Falconeer, if I were you, I'd stop wasting time and focus on the tasks given to you by Fly - given time and you could focus on your own projects too but the priority for DSB is not to get a new website, it is on the list of things but not a priority. Priority is to get public fixed, changed, whatever suits the community best and also the possible movement to ASSS or at very least exploring all ends required to make a move on such a project.

You have energy and devotion, however if you wasted it on doing what you've been asked to do - you'd be a great asset to us. This all nonsense revolving around bashing us for not allowing you to start projects of your own where we have no oversight or no knowledge of any functionality/possibilities - basically 0 say at all on what you're developing for us, is waste of your time as well as ours. How long did it take after you had your chances to help us by making maps before you got back to bashing us for not allowing you to help? Less than 24 hours is my bet and thought you said you are willing to help - which is clearly not the case until you can help by doing what you want - instead of doing what we're trying to accomplish here. Shows a lot on what kind of person you are, attempting to force our hand.

Same with the F1 menu - as far as I know, nobody asked you to create a new one - you just chose it was the next target of your own dev work. You spoke with me that you're doing it and asked what goes where - I clearly told you to wait because I do not have everything written down what I need to see in that thing. I don't deny it needs updating but it will be updated and with the correct information when we're able to provide you or somebody else with all the information we need there. It's not planned yet how massive rehaul will happen on F1 for example but we will get there. Not to mention, when you asked for this, it was 6am my local time - I was on my way to bed and having a flu at the moment makes me really dizzy. However, I did not tell you that because you simply do not need to know - neither does anybody in DSB - my personal things are.. that's right, personal.

You can say we're limiting you, we are. However it's only for the benefit of everybody involved if the projects we're doing are well coordinated, basically if you created a system for us which misses important things - we'd be forced to turn it down - this would not serve the best interest of devvers nor how DSB moves forward, of course in terms of feeding the troll this would be perfect.

I strongly urge staff and non staff to think a while - is responding to Falconeer really necessary? It takes time we do not have and satisfying needs of a troll is not very useful towards the future of DSB. I really feel very sad for Fly, who is trying to do everything to keep you in his dev team but you even fight versus him on these forums, basically biting the hand that is trying to feed you.

PS. My apologies to everybody, this will most likely cause about 5 walls of texts, which have nothing to do with any proposed plans. This is my only post as a direct answer to Falc's trolling attempts, from here on all my focus will be on avoiding his efforts.

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falconeer
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Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by falconeer »

Beer I could just as easily say that I gave you tasks to complete and you haven't yet. Your first priority is to move to ASSS, get on it. If you want me to do this then give me sysop and access to the server and everything else, and DSB will be on ASSS by the beginning of February, with or without Argyle. And with Modules ready for both pub and practice.

Simply put being a sysop doesn't make you a god with slaves that you can give orders too. Did you look at Ssseths picture that he posted. The difference between a boss and a leader. If you want to get something done, do it yourself. That is the difference between you and me. You are unwilling to work and expect everyone to do the work for you. If I don't do what you ask to make you look competent, then you accuse me of not caring about the zone. And if I do what you ask then it seems like you have a handle on the situation when things get done. But clearly you don't.

Why are you relying on me for this pub project. I have no idea. A mapper is barely needed. You have the deathstar already, you have the tiles, you just draw a square for the duel box. As for a new NKZ I told you that type of graphic design is out my league. I'm a photoshopper not a 3D modeller. And frankly I don't even see why a new NKZ is desperately needed for this idea. It would just be eye candy and a bonus. All that's needed is the code, and that's something I can't do. That's fly's job so stop bothering me.

All that aside, I found plenty of people in Trench wars willing to freelance us a New NKZ. But it's not my job to recruit developers for you. If you want to be sysop then do it yourself. Go to trench wars ask for help and get some people on board to do the level of mapping you want. I find it annoying that you preach about how great you are as a sysop and coordinating things, when you keep relying on me to do your dev work, and asking me to find people to help FLY, or to bring snake back. If I am so great maybe I should be sysop then? Why are you relying on me? Is it because I'm the only person on the dev team? Hint Hint - Maybe you should grow the dev team. I started my three projects way before you guys came up with your plan to save pub. There are three of you, and one of me. I think you three have a handle on pub. Eridu is a mapper, you're good with Photoshop, and Fly can code it. If you were a good coordinator, you wouldn't have your only developer doing everything.

There is no such thing as priorities in a zone that DOES nothing. If you gave me access to the forums we could have had a few nice templates up here within a day. Instead that day was wasted with NOTHING getting done. It was last friday when I asked. What happened friday? Was I needed for anything? No. Did anything projects get worked on in the zone? No. Do you get it yet? Nothing gets done, and you CONSISTENTLY CHOOSE NOTHING getting done, over letting me finish something. Just because I am working on the F1 list, remaking DSB tiles, Willing to edit the forums in 1 day, and Working on two pub maps. Does not mean I am not focused. You have no clue how much time I have do you. So maybe you shouldn't comment on it. I have hours and hours and hours. About eight free hours a day. I can easily do all of these things at once, and I HAVE been. None of these ideas are low priority. Every small thing matters. They all build up in the end, and suddenly the zone looks like it had a major improvement. Lastly I want to stress, that I am doing WHAT I CAN DO. IE. I can't code, I can't make your shitty NKZ that you feel you need for your pub idea. So I can't help you with your pub idea. But what I can do, that is what I am doing and willing to do. Maybe you should focus on assigning your dev team the tasks they are actually capable of completing with their talents? Because you are so ignorant, I am finding these tasks on my own and making it easier for you. All you have to do is get out of my way and let me do what I can do to help.

P.S Give me temporary access to the forums already so I can make them nicer.

P.S.S I suppose getting banned gives my ideas validity to, or the fact that I was devving maps while banned. Maybe shut your face? Or ask questions before assuming shit. Or how about the fact that my map is so big it can't even be uploaded to an arena. Yet I'm still devving it? OH shit MAYBE I ACTUALLY LIKE MAPPING? AND THATS WHY IM DOING IT? It doesn't even need to be up-loadable.. hmm

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falconeer
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Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by falconeer »

It's like if you find a web developer tomorrow, willing to work for free.

And you tell him, sorry don't work on the website. It's not priority right now. Our priority is fixing pub.

So Eridu, Beer, and Fly all "work" on fixing pub (Assuming they ever do any work on their own) And this new web developer, who doesn't have continuum installed and is useless for helping with their pub idea, will just sit there doing nothing for 6 months.

Are you starting get how dumb you are?

You could have had this guy fixing your website, at the same time you were fixing up pub.

It's the same situation with me. I can only do what I am capable of doing. Let me do it.

Tembest
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:12 am

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by Tembest »

Beer, this is what we talked about when I told you the current system is not supporting Developers and does not inspire them to
actually do any work. We are running are a voluntary work zone. You have to let people work on exactly what they want.

Perhaps the second time ever I'm saying this, but Falconeer is absolutely spot on. If you have someone willing to make you a website,
you don't tell them to focus on Pub unless they are your paid employees!!! You take whatever improvements you get and thank the
people!

I'm very surprised and disappointed to hear you talk about Devving that way... good luck finding anyone willing to help :/

Falc, I do not have much power in the zone in the end but I do run the forums during Ent's absence, so how is it that you are actually
willing to improve the forums? Because at least I like the good old basic look. You may suggest something, and create something and if
you want something changed, run a poll to see whether people want it changed on the forums, ok? If it's a template people can
choose from, just send it to me and I will upload it. What is it that you require an admin access for?

Beer Hunter
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:29 pm
Location: Finland

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by Beer Hunter »

@Tembest: Luckily dev is not exactly on my alley so I think the people in dev are open to do any way they wish. It's not entirely like I would not accept work they are doing, however forcing us for a change is the biggest issue here. Especially with stuff which definitely requires us to be involved in the development process. I really want to go over everything before adding, going anywhere blindfolded, adding or "improving" solely based on a promise of better system is not exactly what I can do, it's not only my own beliefs which prevent that - we must remember that we're serving the community and any possible harm happening always has twice as bad impact on everything as the actual improvement has. Bad stories run a lot longer than the good ones do.

In other words, I'm more than fine having our dev team chasing their tails, trying to figure out who has done and what - and if it works together with what somebody else has worked on. However I can argue that it's not efficient usage of everybody's time to just tell your dev team to work on whatever you wish and then come back, we'll add it - or do we? Maybe the thing they've done does not suit DSB at all and they've wasted many hours believing their concept will be added.

Free, voluntary or paid work - all the same, without coordination it's going to be a mess - if there is no slightest hint of who is doing what and if the pieces match together.

Tembest
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:12 am

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by Tembest »

But allow these people the chance..

Allow them to create anything they like, tell them to run the poll and ask for opinions and then bring the results to you.
I'm not suggesting you upload everything blindly to replace something existing.

And no Beer, the creative developers work is not really coordinated even in companies like Google, which is a pretty decent size business.
They are asked what are they working on and perhaps guided in some way and the bosses are interested in hearing what kind of
progress they have made so far, otherwise they have pretty much full freedom to innovate anything they like. If Falc wants to work on
a website, let him.

You're suggesting stuff causes you extra work. Well, perhaps you should tell the developers to run the tasks you were going to?
All it takes is some leading. You don't have to be the one announcing a new theme or asking for opinions. Instruct the developer to do
that and ask how it was done. You don't have to replace something existing blindly, ask for results of research, if there isn't any then
the developer holds no right to complain. But they need to be guided to do something like that. See we all tend to believe our own
creations are superior to others'.

Sure, you can improve an existing pub game by strict guidance but you will never get any INNOVATIONS, unless you allow people the
ultimate freedom to work on exactly what they want and to spend their time on that exactly the way they want as long as they bring
any research results to support their idea. And when occasionally you also might feel strong about an idea, perhaps you can help the
developer in the process?

But never, in a voluntary zone with a population of 50, tell your developers to work on something particular unless they, once again,
volunteer for it! Just kindly accept the improvements.

As I just told Falc, if he wants to improve forums, I will allow him. If he wants to replace something he must run a poll and get more
support than the existing. If he wants to add a template, I won't stop him. Even if it's ugly as hell, people have the freedom to choose.

Developers of this zone have worked hard for a long time but the inventions, improvements, whatever very often fail due to bad
management. Somebody in higher Staff says "No, that's a bad idea." Why would my opinion on Pub be more valuable than Falc's?
Because I'm Staff? Somebody has decided I am competent to say that. Now why has that somebody decided so? Because I have
actively specced, banned, gagged rule violators. Because I have participated in Staff discussions. Because I have updated an Excel
sheet with Ban history. Because I have hosted league matches. In other words, I have helped to run the zone mainly by performing
bot-like actions for a decade. This brings me to the question again - Am I more competent than Falc or any retard who has played
the game for a long time to decide what Pub should look like?

This topic is so complicated I don't even know how to express my thoughts on it. The basic idea is that the management of the Dev
team is horrible. Management does not mean assigning Falconeer tasks.
Management means assisting Falcooner with whatever he wants to work on in a way it requires as little time from the Manager as
possible but yet allowing Falcooner the chance to prove his work worthy. Support my friend, support, even if you see 0 potential in it.


When we are talking about changes, there is only one that is always forbidden due to players' demand.
Do NOT tweak the ship settings (unless we are talking about 50 nrg or similar). People have year after year stated it is by far the
best thing in DSB, and the reason they choose this over other zones.

Beer Hunter
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:29 pm
Location: Finland

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by Beer Hunter »

I'm completely fine with that, as I said it's not on my alley so they can do it as they wish, I won't stop them. It is just my very own viewpoint that it would be easier to work coordinated, but I am confident that our development head will do it as he sees it fit and it pays off. No, you're not more qualified and neither am I to say what pub or anything should look like, it's entirely up to the users. However given the resources being limited and our time for huge changes running out all the time - I was looking towards pulling all resources together. What I mean is, yes we can update the website right now, however updating the website without functional public means we could be left with nice website who nobody uses. Updating F1 descriptions before adding new content to public, sure can happen, however it needs to be reworked right away when new content comes in, doubling the work required. We can even move to ASSS right now - however that means all practices and leagues will be offline for 1-4 months. My logic definitely is rocket science here but what can I do. :roll:

PS. All the "We can do this or that" are intended as sarcasm, we're not planning to make a move which would cost us having league or practice offline for months.

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falconeer
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by falconeer »

I asked if you wanted me to get gibbit to code the practice bot in ASSS and make it even better. And you didn't reply. Then you could technically move to ASSS. Since practice is all that is being used.

I don't have time to read this yet. But Tembest, I was going to make maybe two templates, (This template would remain the default) One white template, and one black template. Possibly add more features etc. I just need access for a week to do it. I need access for a week because that's the only way I can do it. Access lets me trial and error with the CSS code, it has previews I can use, lets me upload buttons and see the results etc. I've never made a forum on the side and sent it to someone, wouldn't even know how to do that. I've had many squad forums though so I have some experience.

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Fly Swatter
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:09 am

Re: A Proposed Plan

Post by Fly Swatter »

Tembest,

Im fine with falc working on the look and feel of the website, if he could do the job, it would be one less thing needed.

Its a matter of trust, keep in mind the zone's database's all have connection strings and pw's associated with them.

-Fly

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