DSB Pub

[Seriel Killer]

Did no one share the memo with SK?

too idle to even read memos :p

[Fly Swatter]

Seems we have a general consensus on some of the issues, but moving forward without any sort of official decision-making group is difficult. Without a dev-team and without a decision-making group to guide them, its just me and private discussions among the few active staff members.

The ultimate goal of uniting pub and league is unreasonable in the short term. What is reasonable is a simple clean design of pub.

The 10k pound gorilla in the room at the moment is reverting back to simpler times. Forcing better team play by GUTTING PRIZES and PRIVATE FREQS. The game for NOW ATLEAST will be a very simple 15 DING GAME.

Do I make this happen, or do i sit back and do nothing for the next 2-3 years while we wait for a master plan to form?

[Fly Swatter]

As for the rest of your points... Well it's clear you feel strongly about this. I'm not here to defend
Eridu or DSB Staff because to be honest, I don't know how they work. I just know that a thorough,
effective, and most of all, realistic plan is needed before anything is even tried. And unfortunately
their display is not convincing me right now. I get the impression that they're focusing on the
switch to AS3 and are relying on that to solve our problems. It might make life easier but it's not
going to solve anything. The fundamental things that need to be done can be done right here on
Subgame.
.

The switch to as3 was over stated. Its something thats supported by every staff member that I know, but will require more then me to fully develop. If and when we get it connected to the biller, it will be connected to the main zone as a sub arena only.

If as3 proves successful or atleast promising, then perhaps it will be moved to a proper server and further developed. Either way subgame will still be the main zone. As3 offers alot so why not use both, they are easily connected threw the [peer] system already in place.


As for staff part of your post, there isnt many that are active.

[Tembest]

Anyway, you two are so wrong it's funny. Just to make a point, you both have been
on Staff for god knows how long and look where it goes DSB. Maybe it's time to change your ways.

It's kind of funny you think you have the knowledge to say that. I have offered my help for whoever has been in
charge of the zone for roughly 10 years. If you were in charge, I would have done the same. In case you don't
remember I already quit in Staff because I couldn't approve of the decisions or ways of thinking of Hoch. I came back
only because I know Ent in real life, and he nicely asked me to come back to at least share my views.

Not once during my time in Staff has the management of the zone or anything else for that matter represented me in
any way. I have never asked for more power. I have never asked to make decisions. I make enough decisions and
manage enough people in my daily life. I don't have the interest to run an online game.

And to actually defend Beer... Wow I never thought I would be doing this but here we go. I'm not saying I approve of
everything he's done over the years... but the truth is he has had very little power over anything. In the end it was
pretty much never him making any of the decisions. Naturally he's the guy to blame since he delivers the message. At
least the man hasn't gone all emotional on forums crying how he shouldn't be blamed for half that's happened. He takes
the shit and swallows it. I have to say that literally everyone would have quit by now. I don't know what's striving him
forward... power hungriness? kindness? addiction? I can't tell, but for some weird reason he's sticked around while
people like you SK, quit Staff after 3 months when everyone didn't do exactly as you wanted.

Ent on the other end was given the task of reviving an already dead zone. He was one of the few who actually believed
in it. Luckily for him, things in his real life started going his way and so many nice things has happened to him ever since
he took over the zone. Unfortunately it means he has had to sacrifice the time he used to have for the zone.

See, the thing is, I just see you talk for like 5 years now and never once saw
you get a position in staff (I might be mistaken of course but then again, that
is what I see).

If you're really into helping the zone I would like to see the power hungry staff
give you all the things you need to help the zone, without SMOD powers it's useless.

Delic is a little similar to you. You want much in little time. And under Hoch's spell people like Delic who like to use the
freedom of speech and get into rather fiery conversations wasn't really an option. I became one of those people only
after I started disagreeing with pretty much everything done in Staff. The point being, you don't just throw the zone
at someone who has not proven himself worth of anything but words. Although, as you can see from the other thread,
I have voiced my opinion about supporting Delic because I believe the zone could use the kind of leadership he would
have to offer.

Next, it has shit to do with smod powers or anything similar. All it needs is the word from the owner of the zone (liito)
to give permission for Delic to do whatever he wants. I think the reason Delic hasn't been given this power is that he
would actually need a lot of help with the implementation, and no one can guarantee him getting any. His ideas are not
similar to Fly Swatter's who actually just plans to code something and can do it himself. Delic wants to be in charge of
everything and would need the entire Staff to work co-operate with him in order to achieve the common goal.

Most importantly, take work for example. Would a company owner just name a new CEO among one of the sales clerks,
or actually one of the customers... This customer says how he has used the products of the company for over a decade
and claims to know what is best for them. A total outsider whose only attempt as a CEO was once when he was given
the chance to revive a company but failed miserably. That's all his leadership experience. Would the owner of the
company be ready to sacrifice his business by giving it to the hands of a loyal customer who has written a nice letter how
he claims to know what needs to be done without an actual plan even existing? Once again, I must say I support Delic
and think he could be useful for the zone if everything worked the way he wanted and people co-operated with him.
But throwing the zone at his hands isn't really as simple as you seem to think... He would fail already if he didn't get the
assistance he was expecting. So he would fail due to outside factors. In other words, he cannot even control his success.
It's a dilemma. Delic would probably be the best leader for the zone (IF he actually had the time he claims to have) but he
would also be one of the biggest risks for the zone. In my opinion, the zone is pretty much dead so I wouldn't mind giving
him a chance. But before that happens, we would need a lot of people to actually approve of that because Delic would need
a lot of help. We would need a lot of people agree that they would follow Delic's plan and actually put in the work required
even though they didn't approve of the work they have to do.

[Seriel Killer]

You know what's your problem? that you think everything in this world
will only work after it's been planned for 10 years and then when you
run it, to actually determine it works you need another 10 years.

I gave a lot of feasible solutions that take only a few hours of work,
you think I quit staff because nobody does what I want so let me clear
this out for you.

YOU KNOW SHIT

The only times I was in staff was when I was Rf at league and I was
reffing quite a few matches, myself and Beer Hunter has disagreements
and I wasn't Rf anymore.
I was also ER and I quit because of DreadNaught horrible management
and because when I was online people were barely online at that time.

What you are referring to is dev team, I was invited to the dev team
number of times. Gave out awesome ideas on all occasions, even created
my own event.
every single one of my ideas was never implemented because
of idiots like beer, eridu and whoever was in staff for reasons like:

"We have to talk about this first" w/e and trying to point out all kinds of mistakes
about my ideas.

what you don't understand is what staff has been doing for all these years
was to remove any kind of motivation. Not just from me, from all developers.

You are doing the exact same thing, knowingly or not, you keep
saying to people that have great ideas on how to improve the zone... "let's
talk this over" or whatever instead of actually implementing some of this great
ideas of an already dead zone.

See? you have 0 population most of the day and you prefer to stick around in this
forum debating the best course but that take infinity, since these talks have been
going on since DSB had forums.

[Seriel Killer]

Just an example, starting a zone ASSS would take me about an hour or so.
Transferring DSB's Subgame to ASSS would take a few more I reckon.

Why does it take already like 2 months for Mr. Swatter here to do it
and the funny thing is that it is not close to being done to what I hear.

See? facts speak for themselves. Staff is stupid as always. I hope you're
enjoying your talks on how to improve the zone instead of actually doing it.

[Tembest]

Your posts pretty much speaks for itself... but let me just write it a bit differently for you.

I can't believe you honestly think publishing something without using a reasonable time to try to find out the flaws in it is better. You quit because people found flaws
in your ideas. Whoever they were does not matter. You can't accept criticism against your ideas, and the idea that they might need to be edited multiple times. An
awesome idea from one guy is rarely even decent before modifying. It's a common problem amongst what you call "creative" people. Every now and then one of these
creative people invent a piece of plastic worth 10 billion but 99.99% of their ideas are rubbish or at least need to be modified a lot before publishing.

You know what's your problem? that you think everything in this world
will only work after it's been planned for 10 years and then when you
run it, to actually determine it works you need another 10 years.

No. I believe you need to plan things until the plan reaches a satisfactory level. This could take 45 minutes or 5 years,
depending on the issue. I personally believe it's better to go safe than take massive risks. By going safe you sacrifice the biggest advantage but you also prevent
yourself from the biggest possible loss. That's why it's called SAFE.

What you are referring to is dev team, I was invited to the dev team
number of times. Gave out awesome ideas on all occasions, even created
my own event.
every single one of my ideas was never implemented because
of idiots like beer, eridu and whoever was in staff for reasons like:

"We have to talk about this first" w/e and trying to point out all kinds of mistakes
about my ideas.

what you don't understand is what staff has been doing for all these years
was to remove any kind of motivation. Not just from me, from all developers.

I know it's frustrating, trust me. But welcome to real life. Try offering a new idea to a company and sell your idea to them.
Now that, my friend, that is challenging. SS is like kindergarten where you suggest a new way of eating mud but others are hard to convince.

Developers' job sucks... It's like an AD trying to create new advertisement campaigns or even a single advert for a company, and the ideas just keep getting turned
down. A month of pure thinking, and then it finally hit them. The perfect ad! But the reply is "Sorry, we can't really find it in that one." Boom!!! Back to point 0.

You are doing the exact same thing, knowingly or not, you keep
saying to people that have great ideas on how to improve the zone... "let's
talk this over" or whatever instead of actually implementing some of this great
ideas of an already dead zone.

See? you have 0 population most of the day and you prefer to stick around in this
forum debating the best course but that take infinity, since these talks have been
going on since DSB had forums.

For the millionth time.. I am trying to help and nothing else. I am trying to help people release at least an ALMOST-READY idea.
Also, I'm talking because I SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING ELSE. I've been saying this for a long time. I could do a lot and innovate, create stuff, do actual
work, but I don't want to. Simple as that. From your perspective, I am the guy who never does anything but simply criticises others' ideas. It's true, it's absolutely
true from one perspective. Someone else might view Tembest as the guy who is trying to help people to release a better product.

[Seriel Killer]

From your perspective, I am the guy who never does anything but simply criticises others' ideas. It's true, it's absolutely
true

Exactly, every staff member has always been like that.

Why are you so afraid of change? it's gotten to a point where I pity
you for being so afraid of it.

I have been playing a few other games and none of them ever had
to go through this kind of process. you are making this too big of an issue
like, if we don't get this right 99.99% the zone would die.
This system is what got DSB to where it is today.

[Tembest]

Oh yea..

The biggest problem with all the great ideas are that they get stuck in Staff, or whoever is in charge of that matter. Not because they intentionally do that, but
because they don't have the time or enough interest to focus on it. Mainly because Staff isn't organised, never has been. They aren't keeping list of things to work on
and then move on to the next one.

Ideas get lost, and that's what bothers developers the most. That's Staff's fault, completely, and always has been. That's why for years I've been suggesting that
people would make their ideas public. Promote them on forums and to everyone else around. The community will win if most people like the idea they see. They will
force Staff to operate in the way the community desires.

So, do something else than just show an event to Beer Hunter and say "Hey, here's my awesome event." Post it on forums, spam people to try it, get the players on
your side, and your event will be taken into use IF people like it.

[Tembest]

From your perspective, I am the guy who never does anything but simply criticises others' ideas. It's true, it's absolutely
true

Exactly, every staff member has always been like that.

Why are you so afraid of change? it's gotten to a point where I pity
you for being so afraid of it.

I have been playing a few other games and none of them ever had
to go through this kind of process. you are making this too big of an issue
like, if we don't get this right 99.99% the zone would die.
This system is what got DSB to where it is today.

What do you mean by change? That I quit suggesting for improvements? That everyone is given the access to whatever they want in the zone? Publish anything
they want? Tell me... If you mean doing something. Read my post again. I said I'm not here to do stuff, because that doesn't interest me. I don't want to sacrifice
my time on that.