I suggest that DSB negotiates to move to TW

[Pater Punishment]

Hello,

In this post I recap my opinion about DSB's current options, which I expressed in the dsb players' council chat today.

In short, I think DSB should move to TW and seek to relaunch DSBL as one of the leagues in TW. This would mean that TW would have a DSB Public arena, DSB Prac arena, and DSB League (at least).

I had this notion when, during the week, pub was empty as usual and the number of players around 22 with no one playing.

This idea is therefore based on my estimate, that right now the number of active ex-dsb in trench wars surpasses the number of active dsb players left in the actual zone. This is the first argument for this idea - the potential of ex-dsb rejoiners could mean that we would be able to bring back DSB League as a 6v6, and in time (one year), 12v12 game.

Second point is, that TW would be the easiest place to recruit completely new players to DSB. Players flying around in TW have already been brought in to this near-unknown client, and TW has more clueless newbies (in a positive sense) willing to try different things. The format could interest TW regulars also.

Also, coordinating the DSB League with TW officials would maybe enable us to avoid overlapping the match times with TW leagues. If we negotiate this well, we could have the match times we want (16 18 20gmt?).

There are of course big drawbacks and question marks. Since I'm working as a consultant, I whipped up a SWOT-analysis for you (strengths weaknesses opportunities threats).

S: I suspect this idea would be a very good move for DSB League in terms of player base.
W: The move will probably affect DSB Public play negatively.
O: Possibility for increase of DSB-playing active population from 1) Sizeable EX-Dsb pop in TW, 2) hundreds of completely new players in TW who don't know about DSB.
T: Possible loss of some of the current last loyalist players. Possible loss of active DSB Public play. Also, we would need some successful negotation to get it done right and a suitable high-up to do it.

As DSB Public even very rarely can offer any larger gameplay than 5vs5, and with DSB League cancelled, I suggest that we attempt to move the public and prac arenas to TW and relaunch DSB League in Trench Wars. If my estimate is correct, that right now the number of active ex-dsb in trench wars surpasses the number of active dsb players left in the actual zone, I think benefits will outweigh the drawbacks.

Another alternative to this would be that we would try parallel arenas in TW to test interest. In other words, keep DSB as separate zone and at the same time host a pracbot in TW.

-Px

P.S. Below is a log of the full conversation with contradicting points by Halflife, Matioso and others.

C 2:Pater Punishment> i came to this chat to say one thing i might not have time to say otherwise
C 2:HighLife> pater, speak your mind please
C 2:Pater Punishment> i think dsb should quit as an independent zone, and seek to join TW
C 2:Eridu> oh my
C 2:Matioso> lol pater
C 2:Matioso> not
C 2:Eridu> thats not an option
C 2:Eridu> i can see why u would say it though
C 2:Pater Punishment> kassius suggested this to me like 2-3 years ago, and i thought he was out of his mind
C 2:Matioso> then dsb would die
C 2:Matioso> i don't think many would play dsb in tw
C 2:HighLife> I'm curious what you mean by join?
C 2:Pater Punishment> in the short run (or mid run), this would be the biggest chance for us to gain players for our leagues
C 2:Snoops> become a tw arena?
C 2:Matioso> and isn't there that stupid resolution limit?
C 2:Pater Punishment> become a tw arena (public), another arena (dsb prac arena) and a TW league
C 2:Pater Punishment> this would have a number of upsides
C 2:Matioso> hoch would dirl
C 2:Matioso> as well as bh
C 2:HighLife> I'll stand solidly against that, and if it happens you would never see me again.
C 2:Matioso> yeah that would prolly end badly
C 2:Snoops> i think that would totally kill dsb
C 2:Matioso> after that it would be all over
C 2:Jet Powers> lrofla
C 2:Snoops> just my opinion
C 2:Jet Powers> {;
C 2:Matioso> this way, even tho not likely or still, we can manage to keep our players or at least give some time to end
C 2:Pater Punishment> i base this whole suggestion on one fact (which is unconfirmed though)
C 2:Matioso> that is?
C 2:Pater Punishment> i think right now the number of active ex-dsb in trench wars surpasses the active dsb players left in the actual zone
C 2:Matioso> that's bs
C 2:Pater Punishment> surpasses the number of*
C 2:Matioso> we still got more dsbers here than in tw
C 2:Jet Powers> there is hope with ERi
C 2:Matioso> for sure
C 2:Pater Punishment> its of course hard to define who is which group, but i think generally its true or alarmingly close to being true
C 2:HighLife> I find that a little hard to believe, but, could be true... either way, that place is the nemisis of DSB...
C 2:Matioso> dunno how much in lego in tw + other squads but for example we had like 8v8 today in pub here, can't get that in tw for dsbers
C 2:HighLife> and we have seen a growth again here lately
C 2:Pater Punishment> i doubt TW sees us as any kind of nemesis
C 2:Pater Punishment> its all hate from this side basically
C 2:Matioso> why would they hate us?
C 2:Matioso> they get players from here
C 2:HighLife> no, they send ppl here, often staffers to promote TW...
C 2:Pater Punishment> the word nemesis would suggest that they hate us back, as i see it
C 2:HighLife> they do.
C 2:Jet Powers> hey, yall hafta stop this, i can see shit to fly with all the red
C 2:Snoops> i think dsb needs to keep its independance. making dsb an arena of TW makes us trivial. if anything, i could see the rest of our population joining tw or quitting altogether
C 2:sky_panda> tw is more fun than dsb?
C 2:Pater Punishment> i see a lot of possibility with ex-dsb rejoiners, who would be interested to at least sign up for the league
C 2:Matioso> those who play only dsb would quit
C 2:Snoops> depends who u ask sky
C 2:Matioso> im going now afk
C 2:HighLife> no, it's way easy though
C 1:Matioso> afk
C 2:Pater Punishment> dsb pub is dead most of the week
C 2:Jet Powers> except for me
C 2:Eridu> its busier during american hours
C 2:Jet Powers> america rocks!
C 2:Jet Powers> lrofla
C 2:Snoops> jesster kicked!
C 2:Snoops>
C 2:Eridu> pub atleast, pracs happen during euro hours
C 2:Jet Powers> gotta advertise, only way now
C 2:Snoops> advertising has been spoken of for years
C 2:Pater Punishment> 1) i see potential in ex-dsb rejoiners, especially for league, 2) TW would be the easiest place to recruit new players to dsb, 3) coordinating the league with TW officials would enable us to maybe squeeze in some good match times which
C 2:Snoops> and years
C 2:Pater Punishment> leagues
C 2:Snoops> but it wont happen
C 2:Pater Punishment> which do not overlap with existing TW leagues*
C 2:Pater Punishment> i think our league pop would be boosted, and pracs would be easier to arrange with TW-wide announcements
C 2:Pater Punishment> the most obvious weakness is that we need a motivated high-up to negotiate good terms for us in TW. no one is capable or motivated atm, so i dont predict this to happen
C 2:Pater Punishment> i still think this would ensure DSB:s survival, and more importantly, we could bring the old system league back, which defines dsb gameplay
C 2:Pater Punishment> i consider changing the format already to be a death sentence of what went on here for 10+ years
C 2:Pater Punishment> alright, i said what i came to say. ill post this on forums
C 2:HighLife> so now you leave?
C 2:Pater Punishment> nah
C 2:Pater Punishment> hope this chat stays active. ill stay on it
C 2:HighLife> and as far as the league bit, If people want to play league, fine by me, pub makes leagues though, without there won't be a league, period. I know, you hate me for saying this, but it's true
C 2:HighLife> and I think obliterating pub games for the sake of a league prac is absurd...

[Pater Punishment]

Disclaimer: I stress that all of the opinions stated in the first post are strictly MINE, and do not reflect anyone elses (mainly the Council's) agreement to those opinions.

Downie, if you could please remove all the unnecessary pictures and links from your post, I'd be grateful. This topic is not meant for your quarrels with BH..

[Beer Hunter]

DSB League would not compete in any way with the current TW Leagues. Therefore we'd probably lose the last bit of players we have/had if we did this move. Also, a small zone being dictated by the biggest zone would create conflicts and their vision probably does not match to ours which means we'd need to either a. go by their rules and regulations, whatever they may be or b. just cease to exist.

Secondly, even if we moved to TW, what promises do we have that we could create a system where they actively seek players to play OUR leagues, instead of their own, as their own leagues are sort of trademark for them and they would gain absolutely nothing from advertising our leagues. Remember that, what if we were able to harness many many players, we could become big and risk TW's success by taking those players away with us if the sub-arena becomes too small for our purposes - for reason or another.

If TW agrees, of course we could squeeze in a plan where both zones plan together when their leagues take place, timewise and such as so we can serve each other's needs better. However as we are the underdogs here, I do not believe they are willing to have such a negotiation as they are coming on top in this fight - big time.

[Seriel Killer]

It's not a 1-sided plan BH, if you go to TW you follow their rules. I don't see
what is so bad about it, after all, they have managed to maintain the highest
population in this game for years.

I'm against the idea, i'm all for nuking millions of e-mails with DSB ad

[Ssseth]

I don't see why TW would agree to it to be honest. Would it hurt to inquire at this point though? The zone is pretty much dead anyway...

[jim the chin]

I don't see why a zone-merge would be risky for anyone. BH talks about DSB losing players to tw and vice-versa, but if it's the same zone then no-one loses players to anyone. DSB's success will be TW's success. Basically DSB will be a TW event; protected of course to make sure the settings aren't changed, but an event that is part of TW all the same.

[Fly Swatter]

This assumes that TW would take over development of DSB?

No doubt TW is far more organized and better developed, but do they have any clue of dsb's history or what is expected by the old timers like me, and many others.

If TW was to fully commit to developing DSB, then in my opinion it would over shadow the rest of TW. This is simply because dsb's foundation its: map, settings, and over all game play is far superior to TW, again thats my opinion.

Why would they do this? They may or may not agree to take over dsb, but they will never make it what it could be.

They would never allow our staff to run dsb on their servers as your post somewhat imply's. Thats why the first line of my post is a question, and why my reply is what it is.

[Beer Hunter]

Fly Swatter has a point there. Why would TW ever agree to take this "burden" to carry, the few players we have left can be a. stolen b. will quit and their "worst" rival from the past will die in agony on life support.

There is absolutely 0 gain for TW from this, which is why I dont see any reasonable reason for them to be interested on any level, basically this plan would benefit us more than them. Even if I am dumb, I can clearly see this between the lines.

TW would need to use their resources, which are limited (as in every zone), for DSB's sake if they want the DSB sub-arena to flourish or the ideas of the minority (yes.. dsbers would be the small minority on stranded island in TW) to be done. Satisfying the small crew on the stranded island would never be their priority, they do not lose because while those people wait on the stranded island, they will be eventually lured to try TW games and in a while, the little island, sub-arena, will be just a bad nightmare already left behind, perhaps visited once a week for shit and giggles - for a walk down the memory lane of the old DSB.

We're the losers here - perhaps either way - but I'd rather lose fighting with our own server up and running rather than wave the white flag and hand the last spirit of DSB right in the hands of the hungry machine which already has taken so many of our players.

[jim the chin]

If TW was to fully commit to developing DSB, then in my opinion it would over shadow the rest of TW. This is simply because dsb's foundation its: map, settings, and over all game play is far superior to TW, again thats my opinion.

Again, what is wrong with DSB becoming a popular TW event? If it's in THEIR zone then it's their success!

Obviously Ent or someone would have power over development of the DSB sub-arenas. TW wouldn't need to put much work in at all.

There is every possible gain for TW. If DSB becomes a popular TW event then TW flourishes even more. The games would be DSB (pub), DSBprac, DSBleague. Furthermore, it's a rather nice coincidence that our zone name starts with a "D" which means our arenas will come up high on the list.

[Super Duper]

I like the idea.

Nobody plays DSB anymore at the moment. All that's left is a group of about 10 players that occasionally play pub. So talking about TW stealing our players makes no sense at all.

I think there's still a fairly big amount of inactive DSB-players left that miss playing league matches. Sure, DSB Staff are still working hard to develop new league-styles and all, but the problem is that nobody cares anymore because the playerbase has declined too much. There's no honor in winning a league if there's only 2 squads participating. A lot of players, like myself, would start playing DSB again immediately if there would be 12vs12 matches again and active prac and pub areas. It's a perfect circle: Nobody starts playing again because dsb is so boring at the moment. But the reason dsb is so boring is because nobody starts playing again.

If a large group of old players would start playing again all at once, I think dsb could flourish again. (of course not like the old days, but still) In order for this to happen we need a spark and a lot of 'publicity' so people will get the feeling that there is something big coming up. A full-blown league that's actually worth pracicing for. Moving DSB to TW could maybe add to this 'spark'.

At this point it's basically all or nothing, so here's what I suggest:

-Pick a date, 4-6 months from now for the start of League 14, a full blown 12vs12 league. (because 12vs12 obviously is the most fun)
-Make a good looking, fancy promotion movie, e-mail it to everyone who has ever played league to spark interst of the inactive playerbase (this is probably the most important thing, it should look cool and give you the feeling that winning that league would actually be worth trying your best for.)
-Move DSB to TW (old DSBers who play TW now would come back)
-To spark some interst, give the winners a cashprize

I know for sure that Old Bones, even at this point, could easily get 12 people to show for a match that actually mattered.

-Duper